Charter Review Commission
May 22, 2008
Agenda
 
We will meet in Cleveland City Council’s Committee Room (217).
 
Cleveland City Council security has asked that Commission Members that are not Members or staff of Cleveland City Council refrain from entering Council offices without an escort.
 
1)    Public Safety (Chapter 25)
     a.  Presentation by Local 93
     b.  Presentation by Chief Stubbs

2)    Review of Charter Proposals

Charter Review Commission
May 22, 2008

Chairperson Cleveland called the meeting to order at 8:45 AM and mentioned about the review of the proposals that have been presented to the Commission and there are still some forms that are outstanding that need to be turned in by the commission members.  Cleveland strongly urged that all outstanding proposal documents to be turned in as soon as possible. 

Fire Chief Paul Stubbs was at the table and commented on the charter amendment regarding the Department of Port Control on establishing an ARC unit at Hopkins airport and agrees that this is important, however, Chief Stubbs expressed concern that the language in the amendment might be interpreted as the ARC unit being seen as part of a separate fire jurisdiction, which it is not.  This should only be interpreted as a response by the Cleveland Division of Fire.  Intention of language is to formalize the current practice, but is broad enough to be interpreted differently in the future. 

Chairperson Cleveland raised the question if there is a definition regarding the fire division and first responder program. Richard Horvath questioned why is the first responder service put into the language instead of the fire division. Chief Stubbs mentioned that the fire first responder would get there first and then the other fire resources would arrive in the event of a fire emergency.  Director Ricky Smith mentioned that the ARC unit would serve as first responder to the airport and for structural fires the fire division would then arrive and take over. 

Chief Stubbs mentioned that this would mean no new fire jurisdiction.  The ARC unit would be the first responder at the airport according to the Chief.

Bill Callahan mentioned that this is a definitional issue and that in the future it might apply to primary fire services in the future, which is the concern.  Fire Initial Response Services was language recommended by Richard Horvath who further indicated that he would make revisions to the language for the amendment. Horvath also mentioned about the possibility of a protocol that could be used.  Director Smith expressed concern that the protocol could be challenged by any interested party such as the union.  Matthew Silverstein mentioned that this is not setting up a separate fire jurisdiction at the airport. 

Ken Johnson mentioned that two weeks ago it was decided not to create a new police department at the airport. Director Ricky Smith mentioned that a separate police force would be suggested, which would be private, but adhering to civil service rules.
 
Ken Johnson questioned who would the fire chief at the airport report to – Fred Szabo, Commissioner at Cleveland Hopkins Airport would be over this operation. 

Director Smith mentioned that the issue is responsibility and that Arc would have responsibility to airport structural fires and once the fire department arrives they would take over the operation or lead in the coordination.  Horvath mentioned that there is ambiguity as to who is in command.  Chief Stubbs is trying to establish that this is not a separate jurisdiction in reference to the revised changes in the charter. 

Roosevelt Coats indicated that layers appear to be added to this policy that could complicate an emergency fire situation.  Ken Johnson mentioned that he is not overly concerned but raised concerns that the revisions may be too complicated to understand what will be done and how it will affect the delivery of fire services at the airport. 

Horvath mentioned that the airport fire service only has jurisdiction over airport property.  The amendment needs to state that at the airport, the fire airport service would have control over the fire incident at the airport.  Director Smith mentioned that we need to formalize what is already in place.  All nonstructural airport fires are under the jurisdiction of the airport fire service. 

Collenne Gilson mentioned why not insert that all nonstructural incidents at the airport be placed under the jurisdiction of ARC, which may be more preferable in clearing up confusion of who is in charge. 

If one of the concourses were to catch fire the Cleveland fire department would be responsible.  If someone set fire in one of the restroom areas at the airport the ARC fire unit could respond more quickly.  If there is a fire in the office and there is structural fire, the Cleveland Division of Fire would respond. 

The civil service comments were the next items that Chief Stubbs wanted to comment on.  The fire chief reclassification position was mentioned by Chief Stubbs as something he wanted to comment in and then proceeded to  read a statement (see attached copy). 

Chairperson Cleveland mentioned to the Fire Chief that both you and the police chief are both civil service employees or appointed, and mentioned that the she wanted to hear more about the classified and non-classified positions and the advantages and disadvantages to each. 

Ken Johnson mentioned what are the concerns that come into play other than safety.  Chief Stubbs mentioned that in other cities there have been situations where other factors did come into play in making a decision about fire matters.  The Chief also mentioned that the fire chief must be able to state the facts as they are without worrying about losing his job. 

Ken Johnson mentioned that the administration recommended that the fire chief should be placed in that position, and that the fire dept works in most major cities.  Chief Stubbs mentioned that people love doing what they love to do.  Johnson mentioned that we always have a habit of fixing stuff that does not need to be fixed. 

Roosevelt Coats mentioned that he agrees and that the fire department works well and fighting fires have advanced more than other departments.  We do have a department that works well and believes that the course should be maintained and there should be no changes made to the system.

Patrick Mangan mentioned a person who cannot follow orders especially in crisis situations cannot remain in office in reading language in an administrative document that was provided by Mayor’s Chief of Staff Ken Silliman and expressed concerns about this and agrees with Coats that the Fire department should not change.  If you have someone at will it could cause problems in regards to classified vs unclassified positions. 

Bill Callahan commented that most of the controversy would be budget and deployment issues.  The role of the fire chief is to implement the recommendation and implementation on what the Mayor and Safety Director decide.  Why is there a problem of the political leadership in carrying out this responsibility, what is the problem?

Cleveland asked if the Commission would like to bring back the Mayor’s Chief of staff and the safety director to examine this issue further.  Roosevelt Coats mentioned that he did not know if we need to do this, maybe a subcommittee could be set up to look at this and then come back to the Commission with recommendations. 

Chairperson Cleveland suggested that we review the minutes of when the Chief of Staff and safety director was present at an earlier Charter Commission meeting and made comments on this issue and we can move on and take a vote on this. 

The Chief also mentioned that he would like to see a charter change that would strengthen his ability to manage and have some flexibility in managing a command staff the chief would pick his own command staff.  Chief Stubbs also recommended the he be allowed to create a position of deputy chief of fire to replace the assistant chief position, and create a commander position in the fire division who would be appointed by the chief.  This would give three ranks that would be civil service and those ranks above that would be appointed positions.  This would allow the fire chief to pick his own command staff and provide him with better control.

Ken Johnson mentioned that the command staff is appointed by whom – presently it is civil service exam that is given for position.  Is there a federal law that the airport director be over the police or fire operations at the airport – no there isn’t according to Horvath. 

Roosevelt Coats mentioned that the present system works through civil service and questioned if we were to change this would there need to be changes in the civil service rules.  The chief did not know the answer to this question.

Callahan mentioned that the fire chief would like his position to remain in civil service and that the positions be changed.  The Fire Chief could draw from existing ranks and the former positions would not be filled.  Everyone in the division of fire would still remain in the classified service, but they would be serving in an unclassified position.  They would move back into a classified position if they were moved back down. 

Patrick Mangan mentioned that the fire chief would have some flexibility in choosing his command staff and that these individuals would be moved back to their former positions if they were unwilling to carry out duties, this would be similar to what is done in the police division.

Coats mentioned that the chief of fire remain civil service, but the command staff would be in unclassified position, but would keep civil service status and if something were to happen they would go back to their civil service position. 

It is the Mayor who appoints the Chief of Police and police commanders.  They would revert back to their former position if for some reason they were not to work out.  Chief Stubbs mentioned that the Mayor would have one of the command positions that would be picked and the rest would be selected by the Chief. 

Ken Johnson questioned if the Chief could live with the police model where the Mayor selects the command staff, Stubbs felt that he could.  Stubbs mentioned that under the police model the police chief has input into the selection process.

Vicky Johnson mentioned that under this plan the Mayor would have no control for the selection of the fire command staff.  Callahan commented that on the police side the Mayor chooses and safety director and police chief and they would concur on the selection of command staff for police division. 

Chief Stubbs mentioned that ultimately the Mayor has veto power over all the selections made by the Chief.

Mabel Jasper mentioned that it would be very helpful in doing a diagram on the process of selecting a command staff.  Robert Triozzi mentioned that the responsibility falls under the Mayor, who is the person that is accountable.  Triozzi also mentioned that maybe the Safety Director be brought back to comment about this proposed change.  Cleveland mentioned that Chief Stubbs, Director Flask and Chief of Staff Ken Silliman to come back next week.  Gilson mentioned that it might be more feasible to have the three of them to get together and try to work this out and then come back with a recommendation on what was decided instead of having them come back to the commission.  This would save time and prevent to point and counterpoint argument. The Chairperson agreed with this suggestion.

Fire union mentioned that they would be willing to come back next week to comment about the proposed changes in the charter in regards to the ARC Unit.

Cleveland mentioned that if everyone can turn in their reviews of the proposals next week.

Coats commented that the Fire Command structure once it is put into place and then you have to move them out he could see an increase in turnover, especially when a new chief comes in.

Next week the fire union will come back to the Commission and a tally with respect to the proposed amendments will be reviewed as well. 

Mangan questioned if there has been anything done in rightsizing of Council, Cleveland mentioned that there is still some work being done on this.

Horvath mentioned that there is still some work that needs to be completed and we need to take care of these tasks first before moving on to the other issues.

Chairperson Cleveland adjourned the meeting at 10:25 AM.